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He is saying that no one outside of the US will trust them with their data, because of the US Cloud Act and similar legislation.

There is a reason Proton & Co are based in Switzerland and not in the US





They can compete where the alternatives are also US based services.

They can compete in the US.

There are also many people who are more concerned about privacy from businesses than from governments. There are also people who are more concerned about privacy from their own government than a foreign government.

Although the Cloud Act and similar issues with the US are much discussed here, I see no sign it loses American big tech much business.


> There are also many people who are more concerned about privacy from businesses than from governments.

We're living in an interesting time that may (or may well not!) turn out to be a pivot point in this question. People being ICE'd based on data traces they leave in commercial products may well make this kind of question more tangible to non-technical folks.

> Although the Cloud Act and similar issues with the US are much discussed here, I see no sign it loses American big tech much business.

If that is true (which it may or may not be) then it would also mean competing on privacy isn't a winning move, whether within or outside the US.


lots of people seem to trust apple

Marketing can do a lot to create trust.

It's not all or nothing. Depending on your threat model, Apple's services might be fine. But I guess most people don't think enough about the implications of storing many years worth of data at a US company like Apple.


Apple has actually proven itself over a long period of time on this issue. Maybe Mozilla has as well (do they encrypt telemetry logs etc for people with a Mozilla login?) but I haven't heard so much about that.


Wrong. Apple explicitly preserves a backdoor in the e2ee of iMessage for the USG.

Source?


Did you really forgot about Snowden's Apple slide? Also their phones are routinely mirrored at the border. Just to support the unconstitutional government agenda of policing thoughts and speech.

> Did you really forgot about Snowden's Apple slide?

Was Apple coöperating or were they hacked? (I remember the smiley face for Gmail. Google, in that case, was hacked.)


Yes but Apple is also avoiding collecting a huge amount of data, e.g. by doing things on-device.


Ok, keep telling yourself that as you can’t remove iCloud…



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