> This is literally not a thing that exists outside of some foreigners' imaginations.
I think you're a little obsessed with this. It's not pitch accent and I'm not "being fooled", but if you want to insist that you know better...fine? You do you!
> OK, finally, let's crack open the a 1998 edition of the the NHK日本語撥音辞典. On pages 832-833, we have all the /ho:/ words, with their pronunications including pitch accents: ホー with falling accent after ホ: 方、砲、鵬、朴
I've already given you examples where you can often hear the difference if you try. These "ho-words" are completely unrelated, and non-responsive. You seem to be arguing about something else (or just trying to name-drop the NHK pronunciation guide).
Anyway, there are two distinct sounds in the kana table for う and お. They're individually pronounced differently, so why you're so resistant to the idea that combinations of the two might also have a difference in pronunciation, I don't really know. I've personally had native teachers tell me this, and I hear it all the time. Go ask a native to slowly sound out the individual mora for a word like 紅茶 vs. say, 大阪 -- that's how I first heard it.
Anyway, I'm not really interested in debating this further. It's a very, very minor point. Good luck with your study.
> there are two distinct sounds in the kana table for う and お.
Oh no, that totally escaped my feeble attention. Boy, do I feel sheepishly stupid now.
> Go ask a native to slowly sound out the individual mora
In fact, now that you point it out, even if I do that myself, it's obvious they are different: ko-u-cha, o-o-sa-ka!
Well, I've just been going about this all wrong, barking up the wrong tree.
In hindsight it now makes total sense that they wouldn't just use う as a marker to indicate that the previous お is long. Thats what ー is for; whereas う has a sound!
I think you're a little obsessed with this. It's not pitch accent and I'm not "being fooled", but if you want to insist that you know better...fine? You do you!
> OK, finally, let's crack open the a 1998 edition of the the NHK日本語撥音辞典. On pages 832-833, we have all the /ho:/ words, with their pronunications including pitch accents: ホー with falling accent after ホ: 方、砲、鵬、朴
I've already given you examples where you can often hear the difference if you try. These "ho-words" are completely unrelated, and non-responsive. You seem to be arguing about something else (or just trying to name-drop the NHK pronunciation guide).
Anyway, there are two distinct sounds in the kana table for う and お. They're individually pronounced differently, so why you're so resistant to the idea that combinations of the two might also have a difference in pronunciation, I don't really know. I've personally had native teachers tell me this, and I hear it all the time. Go ask a native to slowly sound out the individual mora for a word like 紅茶 vs. say, 大阪 -- that's how I first heard it.
Anyway, I'm not really interested in debating this further. It's a very, very minor point. Good luck with your study.